Thoughts on 4.21
May. 9th, 2009 11:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ariadnes_stringDue to domestic constraints (yeah, that's one way of putting it!), I've watched the last few episodes in weird way: I watch the last half hour on TV, read some reactions, then get the ep. from itunes on Friday, and watch the first half hour, and usually the second half hour a second time. I expect it's warping my reactions some! And a better person would wait, and watch the whole thing through without being spoiled. But I am not that person...
Anyway, with 4.21, I definitely liked the first half hour better. Some reactions
I was interested in how much the Sam detox scenes emphasized Sam's self-hatred (or self-disappointment, to put it less strongly), but anyway something we haven't seen much of this season: his discussion with wee!Sam of whether he has failed to be normal; and his anguish, when DT!Dean tells him he's always felt different, like a freak. Another thing that came across the the scene with DT!Dean, which we haven't seen much of at all this season, is Sam's desperate need for Dean's approval, respect (love?). One tiny choice of phrasing that drove this home for me was when DT!Dean is about to call Sam a monster, and Sam says "no, no, don't you say it." The weird locution ("don't you say it" instead of just "don't say it") reminded me of "Devil's Trap," where Dean uses that locution twice in the final scene: once pleading to possessed!John ("don't you let him kill me") and once pleading with Sam not to shoot John ("don't you do it, Sam"). I don't know it this is a Winchester-ism or a Texas-ism or what (that final scene in DT is like a Texas-accent competition between all three Js), but the tiny verbal echo just reminded me of the intensity of the Winchester family bonds (and their continual betrayal).
(and yeah, I did go back and watch the last scene in DT to check, which may have been a mistake, since, my goodness, IMO that is one of SPN's absolute best scenes, if not the best, and nothing in WTLB really approached it, again, IMO).
Okay: I say that about the Sam self-hatred in the detox scene because I think it explains some of the intensity of his anger (hatred) towards Dean at the end. If Sam hates Dean, it's in part because he hates Dean for loving him, even though he hates himself. As a lot of people have pointed out, even Sam's unconscious can't confront the fact that Dean loves him that much, and he has to conjure up Mary as the figure of unconditional love, when in fact the person who has offered him that unconditional love through most of his life has been his brother. (More literally, of course, I think we're supposed to understand Sam's murderous violence, with Dean and earlier with Bobby, as not!Sam, as evidence that he's been changed by the demon blood.)
I've been wondering what kind of narrative paradigm the show was going to invoke to motivate the Sam-n-Dean break-up that been on the horizon all season, and I was a little disappointed that they ended up *mostly* going with the most conventional of brotherly conflict dynamics: rivalry. You know: "I'm the one who can stop the apocalypse," "no, I'm the (chosen) one to stop the apocalypse"; "you're weak," "no, you're weak." Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, etc. It feels a little contrived, since rivalry hasn't really characterized the Bros. Winchesters' relationship up until this season, maybe not before the reveal in 4.16 about Dean's role. I guess I can understand why they went that way, though, and hopefully it's going to have some nice narrative pay off, at some point.
Of course, the rivalry dynamic was layered over with a "prodigal son" paradigm, produced by having Dean echo John's words to Sam departing for Stanford. But the power of that repetition was dampened somewhat by the fact that Dean playing John rang a little false (especially after JTS), and by the fact, as I said above, and as lots of other people have said: if Dean is/was Sam's parent, the role he played was not exactly paternal.
I was also a little disappointed that once again, it was Sam who did the leaving in that final scene. I quite wanted Dean to be the one who walked out the door, since it would have been something new. Sam's always leaving: off to Stanford, in "Scarecrow," in "Hunted," night after night in S4. Dean doesn't (can't) leave--and while that keeps him true to canon, I thought after finding his "line" about Sam, he might be able to. At least he didn't follow Sam, and Sam's plan, despite the pleading, which may be new.
Okay--I've gotten those criticisms off my chest (and they are mostly things I *wished* could have happened). There were a lot of things I liked about the ep. And primary among them was JP's acting. Definitely the best thing I've seen him do. He was REALLY GOOD, throughout (sorry to be so surprised about that...). I particularly liked that little scene with Bobby, when he put the shotgun over his heart, and then went from that to beating Bobby over the head with it, violent and regretful at the same time. It was something I've always thought JA is very good at--shifting from emotion to emotion very quickly, or layering them over one another--whereas JP can sometimes get stuck in one emotion for episodes at a time (hello, "Yellow Fever"). Not here.
JA, on the other hand, seemed a little rote. Not bad, just kind of cycling through his standard Dean-isms: wibble, shouting, single tear. Sounds like maybe he was sick? In which case, poor guy! Or it could be that he actually wasn't given much new to do by the script (see above). In any case, it's not going to shake my adoration of JA or Dean. The one Dean scene I really liked was the Dean-Castiel scene; maybe because the chemistry between the actors is still so new. And even though that too was a knee-jerk Dean response ("must do anything to spare Sam pain"), both characters seemed so on guard, filled with conflicting emotions towards one another, that it really worked for me.
Here's hoping I get to see the finale in real time!
Anyway, with 4.21, I definitely liked the first half hour better. Some reactions
I was interested in how much the Sam detox scenes emphasized Sam's self-hatred (or self-disappointment, to put it less strongly), but anyway something we haven't seen much of this season: his discussion with wee!Sam of whether he has failed to be normal; and his anguish, when DT!Dean tells him he's always felt different, like a freak. Another thing that came across the the scene with DT!Dean, which we haven't seen much of at all this season, is Sam's desperate need for Dean's approval, respect (love?). One tiny choice of phrasing that drove this home for me was when DT!Dean is about to call Sam a monster, and Sam says "no, no, don't you say it." The weird locution ("don't you say it" instead of just "don't say it") reminded me of "Devil's Trap," where Dean uses that locution twice in the final scene: once pleading to possessed!John ("don't you let him kill me") and once pleading with Sam not to shoot John ("don't you do it, Sam"). I don't know it this is a Winchester-ism or a Texas-ism or what (that final scene in DT is like a Texas-accent competition between all three Js), but the tiny verbal echo just reminded me of the intensity of the Winchester family bonds (and their continual betrayal).
(and yeah, I did go back and watch the last scene in DT to check, which may have been a mistake, since, my goodness, IMO that is one of SPN's absolute best scenes, if not the best, and nothing in WTLB really approached it, again, IMO).
Okay: I say that about the Sam self-hatred in the detox scene because I think it explains some of the intensity of his anger (hatred) towards Dean at the end. If Sam hates Dean, it's in part because he hates Dean for loving him, even though he hates himself. As a lot of people have pointed out, even Sam's unconscious can't confront the fact that Dean loves him that much, and he has to conjure up Mary as the figure of unconditional love, when in fact the person who has offered him that unconditional love through most of his life has been his brother. (More literally, of course, I think we're supposed to understand Sam's murderous violence, with Dean and earlier with Bobby, as not!Sam, as evidence that he's been changed by the demon blood.)
I've been wondering what kind of narrative paradigm the show was going to invoke to motivate the Sam-n-Dean break-up that been on the horizon all season, and I was a little disappointed that they ended up *mostly* going with the most conventional of brotherly conflict dynamics: rivalry. You know: "I'm the one who can stop the apocalypse," "no, I'm the (chosen) one to stop the apocalypse"; "you're weak," "no, you're weak." Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, etc. It feels a little contrived, since rivalry hasn't really characterized the Bros. Winchesters' relationship up until this season, maybe not before the reveal in 4.16 about Dean's role. I guess I can understand why they went that way, though, and hopefully it's going to have some nice narrative pay off, at some point.
Of course, the rivalry dynamic was layered over with a "prodigal son" paradigm, produced by having Dean echo John's words to Sam departing for Stanford. But the power of that repetition was dampened somewhat by the fact that Dean playing John rang a little false (especially after JTS), and by the fact, as I said above, and as lots of other people have said: if Dean is/was Sam's parent, the role he played was not exactly paternal.
I was also a little disappointed that once again, it was Sam who did the leaving in that final scene. I quite wanted Dean to be the one who walked out the door, since it would have been something new. Sam's always leaving: off to Stanford, in "Scarecrow," in "Hunted," night after night in S4. Dean doesn't (can't) leave--and while that keeps him true to canon, I thought after finding his "line" about Sam, he might be able to. At least he didn't follow Sam, and Sam's plan, despite the pleading, which may be new.
Okay--I've gotten those criticisms off my chest (and they are mostly things I *wished* could have happened). There were a lot of things I liked about the ep. And primary among them was JP's acting. Definitely the best thing I've seen him do. He was REALLY GOOD, throughout (sorry to be so surprised about that...). I particularly liked that little scene with Bobby, when he put the shotgun over his heart, and then went from that to beating Bobby over the head with it, violent and regretful at the same time. It was something I've always thought JA is very good at--shifting from emotion to emotion very quickly, or layering them over one another--whereas JP can sometimes get stuck in one emotion for episodes at a time (hello, "Yellow Fever"). Not here.
JA, on the other hand, seemed a little rote. Not bad, just kind of cycling through his standard Dean-isms: wibble, shouting, single tear. Sounds like maybe he was sick? In which case, poor guy! Or it could be that he actually wasn't given much new to do by the script (see above). In any case, it's not going to shake my adoration of JA or Dean. The one Dean scene I really liked was the Dean-Castiel scene; maybe because the chemistry between the actors is still so new. And even though that too was a knee-jerk Dean response ("must do anything to spare Sam pain"), both characters seemed so on guard, filled with conflicting emotions towards one another, that it really worked for me.
Here's hoping I get to see the finale in real time!
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 05:06 pm (UTC)No, nor, as you add, Sam's continuing need for Dean's approval and support.
That final scene in DT is like a Texas-accent competition between all three Js
Heh. But yes, I also picked up on that emphasis. I think it was very deliberate, that Sam could bear that term from anyone but Dean.
Sam's unconscious can't confront the fact that Dean loves him that much, and he has to conjure up Mary as the figure of unconditional love
Hmm, I hadn't realized that had been people's take on that scene. I thought it was more to do with a childhood habit. I think Sam has felt himself largely misunderstood most of his life (he wasn't such a perfect fit in the family during his younger years, and for some time couldn't understand what was going on), and I saw Mary as the figure of constant comfort for him. Our imaginations always tend to be more understanding than the people in our lives!
It feels a little contrived, since rivalry hasn't really characterized the Bros. Winchesters' relationship up until this season, maybe not before the reveal in 4.16 about Dean's role.
Really? I certainly wouldn't have said rivalry was the most prominent characteristic of their relationship, but maybe because I don't have siblings it always stood out to me in their relationship. I think the way they'd argue about who was right on a case, or what should be done was always laced with it, past a matter of professional disagreement. Similarly, the thing about Dean's bossiness -- I was a little startled when Sam voiced it back in S2, because I never saw it that way, but it wasn't difficult to understand why Sam would. And once he pointed it out, it was easier for me to notice it.
Dean doesn't (can't) leave--and while that keeps him true to canon, I thought after finding his "line" about Sam, he might be able to. At least he didn't follow Sam, and Sam's plan, despite the pleading, which may be new.
Yes, that's true.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 05:48 pm (UTC)I'm glad you noticed it too--I thought I might be being a bit crazy there! But yeah, it did really reinforce Sam's heartbreak and the emotional intimacy of that (internal) exchange.
Ain't that the truth! I've read some other posts saying that Dean, not Mary has been the source of unconditional love, in Sam's (real) life. I was just pushing it a bit farther--to say there's a substitution going on there, maybe because Sam's still not ready to confront the consequences not just of Dean's sacrifice, but also of Dean's parenting, since it's tied up in so much guilt and anger (you talk about this in your post this week, yes?--going over there in a minute to comment).
Heh! and I might be a bit immune to it, since I have two sons who are in constant competition for everything! So, you're probably right--and it just goes past me. I know they have always bickered about who's in charge, who's right, etc., I guess I was thinking it hasn't been an overarching plot dynamic in which someone will be "the winner," or the "one true heir" til this season (though what they'd "win" in this situation is kind of up in the air!), especially a plot dynamic that SamnDean have actually bought into. In DT, for example, the YED tries to provoke Dean by saying John loved Sam more, but doesn't really get much traction with it, from either brother.
(Okay--I can't get that scene out of my head now, and I also have to mention how sad it was to see not-vengeful!Sammy, telling John at the end that there are more important things than killing the YED...)
BTW: I'm having trouble cross-posting from DW to LJ--is there some trick to it? It looks like I've configured things right, but it won't work...
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 07:49 pm (UTC)One another's respect, I think. It's funny because the sibling thing seems to carry over to their offscreen relationship. I remember JP doing an interview about who was better at basketball vs. golf (JP and JA, respectively), and then trotting out that he was able to beat JA in some video game or other and was very proud of himself for that. I think most little brothers find outdoing their older brother in something a significant measure of achievement.
In DT, for example, the YED tries to provoke Dean by saying John loved Sam more, but doesn't really get much traction with it, from either brother.
I always found that interesting too. Realistically, I think it was just that the writers put that out there and had too much else going on to explore it (and in any case, IMToD sort of addressed that issue in a larger sense). But I also think that Dean accepted it and Sam thought it was ridiculous so it never went anywhere. In fact, if asked, I suspect Sam would say that John didn't love either of them enough.
I also have to mention how sad it was to see not-vengeful!Sammy, telling John at the end that there are more important things than killing the YED
Well in a way, Sam hasn't come that far. He seems pretty ready to kill himself (as he was in Salvation, when Dean pointed out to him that any of their deaths was not worth the price). He's not ready to kill Dean, though. And even though he didn't say it, I think he does believe he's protecting Dean by what he's doing.
I'm having trouble cross-posting from DW to LJ--is there some trick to it?
You might be doing what I did the first time, which is checking the box for your LJ account, but forgetting to check the "Manage Accounts" box. Both have to be checked to crosspost.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 08:22 pm (UTC)Ye, you're right. There's been a lot of love w/o respect going on this season...:(
I know--it's so cute, especially at a distance in the adorable personages of JA and JP (the packs of *real* boys that often roam around my house, struggling to figure out wolfpack style hierarchies--not so cute. Love the Js, though).
I'm thinking there's a difference between sibling hierarchies and sibling rivalries, though--not sure how to explain it--but it has something to do with what you say here:
Totally agree. And Dean, if asked, would have said, "of course, I love Sam more too." And also totally agree that Sam thinks he's protecting Dean, that he putting some badly needed reciprocity back in their relationship (as he says in TMATEOTB). So they don't have a sibling rivalry in the traditional Jacob-and-Esau sense where they struggle to be the parent's favorite (gain an inheritance)--but they do have struggles over hierarchy, in which Dean thinks he should be in charge, and Sam thinks it's his turn to shoulder the burden of being the protector.
Okay--getting tangled here--will have to think of a better way of putting it...
Thanks--I figured out the x-posting thing: I was making a different mistake, and plugging my LJ URL in, instead of just my user name...
no subject
Date: 2009-05-10 01:08 am (UTC)